Making Hospitality a Spiritual Practice with Laura Baghdassarian Murray

Welcome to all of you joining us for today’s online conversation with Doctor Laura Bagdasarian Murray on making hospitality a spiritual Practice. I’d also like to thank our friends at InterVarsity press who are co-hosting with us today. We so appreciate your support and the collaboration, and we’re delighted that so many of you are joining us today. If you haven’t already done so, drop us a note in the chat box. It’s always fun to get to see where people are tuning in from, from all over the world. And speaking of that, a special thank you and welcome to our first time guest. We know that there’s over 100 of you who are registered so far, as well as our international guests joining us from all around the world. If you are one of those first time guests or otherwise new to the work of the Trinity Forum, we work to provide a space and resources for leaders to discuss the great questions of life in the context of faith together, and we try to offer programs such as this online conversation to do so, and ultimately to come to better know the author of the answers. And we hope today’s online conversation will be a small taste of that for you today. At a time when so much of our common life seems marked by loneliness, division and suspicion, the question how of how we make space for and truly welcome each other is increasingly important.

In many ways, the practice of hospitality is no longer just a private virtue. It’s increasingly an acute public need in our increasingly isolated and anxious age. It is a practice that has a great public impact, shaping the health of communities, our institutions and our life, common life together. And while hospitality is often thought of as a matter of manners or entertaining, where a beautiful and spacious home or some kind of culinary prowess is seen as a qualification or a barrier to entry. Our guest today shows how the practice of hospitality is actually something very different, grounded in how we respond to the presence of another person, especially when that person is unfamiliar, inconvenient, or just different from us. In her new book, Becoming a Person of Welcome, Doctor Murray invites us to see hospitality as a spiritual practice and a way of life. One that forms our character, deepens our faith, and quietly resists the forces that pull us towards fear and isolation. And she reminds us that hospitality is not about having it all together, but about making room in our schedules, in our homes, and ultimately in our hearts. And so it’s such a pleasure to get to welcome our guest today, Doctor Laura Murray, to reflect on this essential practice and what it means to not only extend hospitality, but become the kind of people who embody it. Laura, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

You bet. It’s great to have you here. So as we start off, I always like to ask kind of what led to a book. Any book requires a huge investment of time. And you have come to this topic from a different vantage point. So many hospitality books are written by lifestyle gurus or what have you, and you’re approaching this as someone who was a spiritual director, as well as a pastor. And you frequently talk about your own Armenian family in the book. So I’d like to ask you what led you to write this book, and why do you consider the topic so important?

Thank you so much for asking that question, and thanks again for having me. And thanks for all of you who are listening. You know, somebody asked me that a few months ago. Why did you decide to ride on hospitality? And my response was, I think it found me. It’s not something that I’m naturally gifted at. It’s not something that would show up on some giftedness test or I wouldn’t. My home wouldn’t show up in a magazine. It really found me as I looked for a way to hold space for others in the middle of Covid. So that’s where it started. It was during that time when everybody was sheltered in place. They were having a hard time connecting with God, because the usual ways of connecting with God and worship or gathering communally were no longer there. And so I thought, if I’m having a hard time connecting with God, maybe others are as well. And then I, decided to create this space called digital Silent Retreats. And people would come on retreat through zoom and where they were at. Then all of a sudden I found myself practicing hospitality, welcoming people in the digital space when we weren’t in the same place.

And I found them opening themselves up to God, to one another. And I thought, there is something here. And then I started researching and studying and going into Scripture and then going into culture and all those things. And so it found me, and I almost had to retroactively look back at my life or see the places that hospitality had had come up, and notice those places where a lack of hospitality also was. So it started off in the middle of the pandemic, and then God said, okay, I need you to write more about this. I need you to guide people through this and helping them see that it’s not just for those who are gifted, not just for those who, you know, have these certain types of homes or in the hospitality business. But it’s really for every Christian that we can embody, welcome, Wherever we are and wherever we go. And so that kind of unleashed the rest of the book.

Yeah. Well, one of your sort of initial contentions in your book is that hospitality is largely a posture, a way of being rather than a place. certainly rather than a performance. So as we start out, we’d love to hear you say a little bit about what constitutes this posture. and how, just to mix my metaphors, how does one begin to lean into it, so to speak?

Yes. Yeah, sure. Well, I often think about, our physical bodies and the posture we take. So if you think about your physical body, there’s postures, right? We might all be straightening up right now as I’m speaking, but we talk about this posture, and the posture goes with us. We carry this with us. And often as I think about these spiritual practices, these ways of being, that we carry them with us. So hospitality is one of those things that is mobile. It moves. And so it’s it’s a practice that becomes a posture when you think about when you work out to correct your posture, it isn’t just a matter of telling yourself be stood up straight all the time, but you’re doing practices, you’re doing core exercises, you’re doing other things that help you become hospitable and help you have this posture. And so it is this, this practice. You have to kind of work it out, and then you’re able to carry it. It becomes a part of you rather than just one thing that you do. And so really, I like to think about it in the physical way of how do we strengthen our bodies? So how do we strengthen our heart, mind, body and soul for hospitality so that we can carry it and it naturally becomes who we are?

Yeah. You know, one of the interesting things that I noticed in just in reading your book instead of reflecting on it is in many ways your work is about attentiveness. both about pushing back against fear, but also learning to see to see loneliness in other people, to see need. and it seems that there’s kind of an inverse relationship there. Part of what fear does is narrow our vision in a sense. and so I wanted to ask you about developing that sense of attentiveness that, sort of brave way of seeing both more broadly and more deeply as opposed to seeing threat. what does one do and how does one develop that, that ability?

Oh, that’s such a good question. As I am listening to it, I’m thinking the first thing that comes to mind is slowing down, that we slow down, whether it’s the inputs that we’re taking or we slow down the thoughts that are going on in our minds. deep breathing. Again, this embodiment of slowing down so that we can be attentive to ourselves, be attentive to God, and be attentive to the person in front of us. now, fear does serve good purposes, and that there are things that we might need to be afraid of, or there is a threat and to be to pay attention to that. And that is important. And at the same time, I think we get so wrapped up, so wound up, and everything moves so quickly that we’re unable to separate our pace away from the pace of whether it’s what’s going on outside of us or even inside of us. And that’s why some of the practice of attentiveness is really this practice of allowing God to attend to us and allowing God to minister to us, and allowing God to slow us down so that we can then enter the world at a pace that is not controlled by the world or the circumstances, but is really controlled by the piece and the pace of the Holy Spirit. And that just takes practice over time, over time, and just again, that’s why it’s the spiritual practice of hospital. That’s why the spiritual practices are called practices because we practice them, we don’t master them, we practice them. And so the first thing that comes to mind, Cherie, is slowing down our pace and allowing God to attend to us first.

You know, you mentioned the importance of God attending to us, but you also talked in your book about the importance of receiving hospitality in order to, you know, build our muscle and extending it. why is it so important to receive as well as just give?

This is where I sit here and wonder. Okay. How, how straightforward should I be in that conversation of receiving and giving and giving is beautiful and it is good and it is generous. But giving allows us to have control. Giving allows us to be in charge. Giving means that we believe we have our hands on the circumstance and what’s going to happen. And a lot of hospitality is actually letting go. Hospitality is receiving what God has given to us, knowing that everything comes from him, every gift, every resource, every manner in which we can offer something to the world. And when we have this posture of gratitude, we are then able to offer it freely without trying to control or manipulate or have a certain outcome, or to make ourselves feel better, whatever it is. And so the receiving allows us to offer offer in humility, and the receiving allows us to receive and the joy of receiving. I think so many of us are hard workers. and we’re hard workers in the faith as well, which those are really good things. And at the same time, we miss out on the joy of being the recipient of a gift. We miss out on the joy of receiving what God has for us. So yes, it is this okay, we don’t get to be in control. So that’s the hard part to hear. But there are also gifts in it for us that if we don’t receive, we also won’t receive those beautiful things like joy.

Yeah. Oh, there’s so much there I want to ask you about. but one of the things that sort of pops to mind, as you mentioned, how so many of us are hard workers in the faith and are kind of wired that way. And, and you also in the book emphasize the importance, importance of presence, you know, over performance or even outcome in terms of hospitality. And, you know, that’s something you’ve quoted other people. I mean, I think Henri Nouwen once basically said, like, you know, hospitality is not to change people. It’s to essentially offer space where change can occur. And so one thing about hospitality is we don’t know what the outcome will be. and it can demand a lot of us, you know, just in terms of our time, of our attention, everything else. And yeah, we don’t know if we will see fruit. so it’s a demanding thing without the promise of fruit. and we live in a world where a lot is expected. There is there’s a widespread sense that if you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist. in our respective vocations, for most of us. You know, there are stewardship issues in terms of thinking about how do we invest our time and our resources. And of course, time is zero sum. It’s invested in one thing. It can’t be invested in another. And I’d love to hear you talk a little bit more about how we think about that as Christians, both, practicing the posture of hospitality, which could require a lot of us without a lot of visible fruit, and balancing that with stewardship, other obligations and just, the realities of of competing obligations.

That is a very real question. So I’m so glad that you asked it, because we and it’s ultimately you’re asking the question of God. We want to be faithful and we trust you with the outcomes. Yet we live in a culture, even Christian culture, that uses measurements that sometimes aren’t of your kingdom. And that’s just reality. That is just attention. in, in our even our Christian subcultures that’s there. And so I just want to recognize that, yes, it’s there. And hopefully you’re in a system or an organization that is working through that, that, that names it, that names attention, but also tries to walk faithfully in both. and so I think every organization, every church, every family you need to. What is that? How will you hold that tension together? The other thing that I would say is that, there is a there is a great freedom that comes and being prepared, which is a lot of what hospitality is, and also anticipating the unexpected. Now, I know that sounds funny, but you prepare as much as you can for whatever you know, and then you hold the outcome openly. I was just sharing with you earlier how we moved into a new home, and it was not the home we expected, but we had been preparing for years, and even in the last few months of shifting our home in order to make more space for my sister as special needs, who wants to visit for longer from time to time. So we thought, okay, this is the idea we had in mind.

This is the plan we had. This is how we would do these things. And we did all this preparation working with, you know, the mortgage broker, working with our realtor, all these things. And then I was walking our dogs, and I saw a sign in front of a house that we’ve always loved from the outside. And it said coming soon. And I thought, oh my goodness, what is this house? Not the price point we expected? Not any. Not even the house we expected. Yet it is met every single thing that we have not only wanted, needed, but also desired, even our little desires. But in that we prepared. It was the unexpected. And then I had to let go right of let go of what I had planned out, what I thought was going to be let go of certain financial thoughts that I had or had planned for. And so I used that story, and I think this is being recorded in the middle of advent that we prepare for. And then the unexpected comes. And so I think that is one of the joys of hospitality is if we can get to the place of preparing with open hands, then we can receive it. but then back to that tension in the system. Right? That’s a that’s a place. Hopefully the system can get to that place of conversation and maturity around that tension of outcome. and offering.

Yeah. One of the things I was struck by in reading your work is that you do name the tensions. You know, there’s a a moral realism or spiritual realism to your work and that, you know, you essentially acknowledge that there are difficulties awkwardnesses and necessarily limits to, hospitality and that hospitality will expose our limits. You know, we are we are limited creatures, embodied creatures. We can’t be everywhere and do everything. And you actually argue that boundaries are essential for hospitality. And so I wanted to ask you about that. what do you mean by that? And why would boundaries, you know, the, the limitation of hospitality be essential to the practice of hospitality?

Thank you for asking that question. We even talked earlier. I think we should talk about this. We should talk about the reality and the need for boundaries. Caroline Westerhoff talks about how good boundaries actually allow for the good work that needs to happen within a place or within a people. And it and there’s good work that we’re all called to do. There’s good work that communities are called to do, that cities are called to do. There’s good work. And so getting clear on that good work allows us to know what are the boundaries that are necessary. And I would say when we talk about boundaries, we don’t first talk about the boundaries. We first talk about purpose. And you talk about vision. What is that place supposed to be? So for example, a school for children, right? It is meant to do the good work of educating, of helping mature and helping them learn and grow as human beings. That physical space needs boundaries and needs boundaries of who what type of teachers are allowed in and needs physical boundaries of who to allow in for the safety of the children. And so there is a good work that that school is doing, but they have to know what that good work is and then they can set those boundaries. And then I would say as well that that boundaries also are not walls, that they can be considered and moved and shifted as the purpose shifts. And so to recognize that boundaries do hold, and they also need to be reevaluated from time to time because something might shift within or something might become apparent in the outside world. And so you, an organization or a team needs to consider that. And then the other hard part about boundaries is those limitations, right. You simply may not have capacity. In my home. I may be able to sleep, you know, six people comfortably and 30 people uncomfortably. I’m just using this as an example. I have no idea if that’s true, but does that make sense that that those limitations are there and they’re real and they help clarify. So boundaries and purpose kind of work together if that makes sense.

Yeah. You know, so far we’ve been talking about hospitality mostly as a, a personal, an individual practice. but you’ve also talked about hospitality as more of a corporate and communal practice. And I’d love to kind of get your thoughts on that. I as I was reading that passage, I thought about, actually, there’s a reading that we published, which is a story about the little village, the village of Le Chambon, during World War two, which was, a little village of just a little over 3000 people. They managed to shelter close to close to 6000 Jewish people. And they were very unusual. Unfortunately, there were very few places did anything. There was no other place that did something like that, but there was some kind of corporate commitment, to very costly hospitality that enabled, you know, a village that we would have otherwise never heard of to do something just incredibly extraordinary. and so I’d love to hear you talk a little bit about what corporate or communal hospitality looks like and what what spiritual practices we may undertake, not only to become a person of welcome, but a people of welcome. Mhm.

Yeah. So as I think about that. Yes. It’s amazing what that village did. And I remember reading about their story. I’m reminded that as we look at hospitality in Scripture, it was not done individually. First of all, it was not an individual endeavor. And we have so often isolated hospitality is just upon one person’s shoulders, right? Because we have made it about hosting in a home or hosting, and it’s been on one person’s shoulders. And so I think just in general, at least those here in the West, especially in the United States, of saying, okay, we need to help shift that mentality, which is going to be, first of all, very hard to shift. And I think one of the ways we shift mentalities is by practicing things communally. And so a community to come together and discern who are we called to welcome, who are the people around us? Where are we located? contextually, situationally? What are the gifts that we have to offer? What are the things that God has given us? And as you look, commune, whether it’s a family or whether it’s a church community, whether it’s an organization or whatever it is to be able to come together and say, this is who we see we are, and this is the need that we see in the world around us, near us, or that we particularly can reach. And how are we supposed to live that out? And how are we supposed to live that? Welcome out. And I think more and more, we desperately need these smaller pockets of hospitality and welcome, because we see so much in hospitality in the global sense that I think it really in these families and these communities and these pockets is where it’s going to show up together. And then you do it together. It’s not just on one person, and it’s more fun to write, or it’s more fun than doing it by yourself than carrying it all on your own. So I would add the fun element to it as well.

Yeah. You know, this, I mentioned to you before one thing I was really intrigued by in reading your book is, you know, you’ve drawn upon your seminary education to explore a little bit of the implications of the ambiguity around the word xenos. you know, we tend to think of xenos as just the stranger, you know, hence xenophobia. You know, the fear or the suspicion of outsiders. But you’ve mentioned that the way it was originally used, there was some ambiguity, whether it referred to strangers, guests or host. and so I would love for you to say a little bit more about what that ambiguity is and what the implications are for becoming, a person of welcome, as well as receiving hospitality, being both guest and host.

Yes. That was such a fun discovery. theologian Amy Oden wrote about that, and as I read it, was in the context of The Road to Emmaus, when the Jesus shows up to the two disciples and they can’t recognize him. And in that story you see this exchange of hospitality where the hosts, the two disciples think that Jesus is their guest. And then it turns around that actually Jesus is the host. And throughout they have exchanged stories and gifts and, a journey, a literal journey, together. And so that is where that word is found. There’s this fluidity to that. And as I think about hospitality, there is this exchange of gifts. And it’s not like a ledger, but it’s more of this fluid type exchange, which sometimes is hard for us. Right, because we think calculating and, and all these things. but it really is fluid. And I often think of when I’ve traveled overseas to serve, or if somebody has traveled overseas on a mission trip or things like that, that often you hear the story of, we went to serve, and yet we felt like we were served so much more. And you hear that over and over again that we thought we were going there to serve. And in actuality, we received a lot of beautiful gifts, and I think that is the closest thing I can think of in our Christian context that people might be most familiar with is that sense of, oh, there was something there for us to give and to receive, and it ends up being more than they thought or could imagine.

That’s beautiful. You know, in just a minute or two, we’re going to start taking questions from our viewers. But before we do that, I’m curious, you know, any time one undertakes a book, it usually changes the author even more. It changes the readers. and so I’m curious, in the process of reflecting on and writing on the topic, how has it changed your own spiritual practices and your own, practice of hospitality?

Um. It has, you know, it keeps on showing me the ways it that it’s changed me. First of all, I think there was great joy and then great, greater, even freedom that I was experiencing by writing it and by embodying it. And even with this latest decision to move into this home, I did have to surrender some things for the sake of what we were going to be providing for another and others. Yet I was surprised that my surrender was easier because I had plans for the original house. I had plans for college education I had. I mean, I had lots of plans and I am a planner and I am a get things done person. And so this new home was going to shift all those plans. yet it also yet my planning also provided for what was coming. And I think for me that I told my husband the other day, I kind of surprised at how easily I let go of it, and maybe my hands were actually more open than I thought they were. Where? I don’t know that I could have said that a couple of years ago. as I hold and control and try to try to do those things. So I would say that and I would say it’s slowed down my pace as well. And that’s something I’ve directly worked on and also indirectly. And I think about that as well, that, that you can’t really welcome and be attentive and listen if you’re going so fast. And so it has slowed down my pace. And the other thing it’s done is it has reminded me of the generosity and the beauty of people and their kindness. And I’m just so grateful, for so many people who would, welcome my words in their life. So it’s been really humbling and sweet.

Oh. That’s beautiful. So we’re going to turn to questions from our viewers. And for if you are new to online conversations, you can not only ask a question in the Q&A feature, but you can also like questions, and that gives us a better sense of what some of the most popular questions are. So we’re going to turn to questions from our viewers right now. And looking at a few of them, I see one from Mark Buchanan who asks on the matter of receiving hospitality, can you comment on how Jesus makes, at least in one instance, receiving the hospitality of strangers, quote, eating whatever they put before you as a basic strategy for sharing the good news. He quotes Luke ten seven. Also, any thoughts about how Luke ten ends with the story about hospitality gone wrong? The Mary and Martha story.

Oh, wow. Yeah, those are great. That’s a lot in there. I don’t know if you all have it typed up here, or I can see it just so I can remember it. yeah. You know, that’s hilarious. You say eating what is put in front of you. I am the pickiest eater. So literally I’ve had to learn to receive from others. I think one way of eating one is what is in front of you, is being grateful for it, and I think can provide discernment for the future as well. And I’m specifically thinking, Mark, of the passage where Jesus is not welcome in his own hometown. So this may not be where you’re going with the question, but it makes me think of that passage where he went to offer others, offer others gifts and healing, and his hometown didn’t want it. And so he was limited in what he could offer. But that moment turned into a teaching moment for his disciples, where his disciples then could go and take nothing with them and be either received or not. And if they are received, then they stayed there, and if they weren’t, they moved on. And so I think eating what is in front of you can be a way of discerning and, and it can be a way of clarifying. The other thing that I think about in that question is, I mean, he received the earth, right? I mean, he received the world. He received humanity. and that God became vulnerable to receive humanity, to receive the people that would care for him. And that is a huge act of vulnerability for anyone. And then for God to choose to do that and to receive that. So I think that I continually come back to Jesus’s model of vulnerability and is living out a vulnerability and his wisdom and discernment when it came to hospitality. Yeah.

So a question from Bill sing, and Bill asks, can you discuss how your welcoming principle should be applied towards the two hot button issues of immigration and political polarization? And then he further asked, can you give some examples of how we should act as individuals or as churches when encountering immigrants or refugees, as well as dealing with those with whom we disagree on political issues?

Yep, those are the two hot buttons. The first thing I would say I know, let’s not shy away from them. I think the first thing that I would say is that hospitality is proximate. And especially in our day now, it needs to be very near to the people, to their stories, to understanding who they are and to seeing them. And I think the heart I think the hard part is when our limitations come in. The hard part is when we cannot do something or we cannot provide a way out. And that is really, really hard. And I think a lot of, our conversations have to do with our powerlessness, our fear. And so most people don’t want to talk about powerlessness and fear. They want to talk about power. and they want to talk about what they can do to overcome fear. But at the deep root, those things are really operating this way, that I’m not this reality, that we’re not in control and that we’re afraid. And it makes me wonder if we, as people and communities are able to tap into our own humanity, the reality that we feel that way, and then extend that to the foreigner, extend that to the immigrant to be able to hear their stories and listen to them. That doesn’t solve all the problems by any stretch of the imagination. But I think we have opportunity to mend small breaks. We have opportunity to mend small fissures, and we can do that in simple conversations and in stories. And again, we may not be able to solve the whole thing, but for a few moments we can be human to human. And I wonder if there’s more of those smaller stories all around our country, that there will be more healing and more strengthening of us as a people in order to be able to continue to lean into good and to lean into caring for others.

Yeah. You know, just to push into that, at one point in your book, you quoted Eugene Peterson, who said that stories are verbal acts of hospitality. What is it about telling and hearing each other’s stories that, that makes us more hospitable and that offers opportunity for those, the healing of the breach?

Yeah, it’s the listening. It’s being heard, being seen that somebody has taken the time to know you to ask questions, and that those small things connect us as human beings and being again. I know all of us aren’t here in the United States, but the United States being a very logical culture versus a storytelling culture, we need to really practice that muscle of telling stories just for the sake of stories, not for a, you know, purpose or result or anything, but just telling stories and then receiving other people’s stories. And I think that’s a muscle that we need to start building and strengthening. And we can all imagine this right when we’re in a moment and somebody deeply listens to something we’re sharing. And it could have lasted five minutes, that stays with us a lot longer than those five minutes. And so those are things that we can all be doing. And just we continue to practice it.

That’s great. So a question from Nathan Swanson. Nathan asks, how do different seasons of life, for example, single and living in a one bedroom apartment or married and raising young kids, mean older, etc. impact the practice of hospitality. And what are healthy ways to determine how to practice hospitality in those various seasons?

Oh, that is such a great question. I was just thinking this morning where, some pastor friends and I yesterday were talking about how we wanted to make more space for Jesus and Advent because we felt so distracted. So I thought, okay, I’ll be up this morning. I know my daughter has stuff to do, but I’ll be up and I’ll sit with my, you know, Lectio 365 app or whatever I’ll do. and she, you know, she had math homework, she had algebra she needed to do, you know, and I’m sitting there going, okay, it’s 530 in the morning and we’re doing algebra and I’m thinking about these things. And, and so there is, yes, those realities. and in that moment I thought, okay. I’m in a season of life. That hospitality towards my children is very important. It’s there in their teen years. It is so important right now to listen to their stories, to listen to things repeatedly, to it is just significant. I mean, develop human development. Experts will say like, yes, listening to them right now, you know, I think when you’re you’re single and you know, you know, one bedroom, you don’t have the space to do it. that you carry that posture with you if you’re walking to the grocery store, you know, as you encounter those, in your everyday life. I tell a story in the book about someone who, didn’t feel comfortable allowing people into their home just for safety reasons. And so we talked about what it’s like to carry hospitality, what it is to do that in creative ways. and then I, I think that’s the thing about hospitality is that it can move physically, but it can also move just in this space. And that if I extend warmth towards somebody or somebody else, listens to me and is attentive to me that there is an exchange there as well. And so I think it adapts. I think it grows. and I would say be as creative as possible, with it. Yeah.

So a question from an anonymous attendee who asked, can you comment on how the Genesis one principle of the imago day can inform and inspire our practices of hospitality?

Yes. So made in God’s image, which also means we’re made for relationship with others, with God, within ourselves and with creation. And we don’t often talk about that relationship with creation. All four of those were broken in the fall. So going back to that Imago day, going back to that reflection of God and that and the, the good work that God has for us and good work that God has. So I go back to being creatives that in hospitality we are creating, we are creating opportunities for moments. We are creating opportunities for connection. So there’s a lot of creativity. I think that we get to reflect in the Imago day and that creativity, ultimately, we hope, leads to the mending of those relationships and whether it’s creation, whether it’s God, whether it’s one another, whether it’s within ourselves. So that’s how I see, that’s just one response to how I see us reflecting the Imago day.

Yeah. By the way, to our viewers, these are great questions that are coming through. So another anonymous attendee asked, what are some concrete examples of offering hospitality are not what ‘typical Christians assume.

Yeah. And I’m not going to assume what you mean by typical, but I imagine you mean a home and maybe some, food involved and maybe even a certain type of home, or a certain, maybe caricature of the person who is the host or hostess. so, you know, a couple of examples are, hospitality just to the person who’s in front of you. And that would mean, let’s say they share, something about, their grandchild. You know, you’re at the you’re checking out at the grocery store, and they say something about a grandchild or something, and you simply say, oh, tell me more about or what do you love about your grandchild? So it’s so sometimes just those follow up questions of tell me more. and they allowing somebody to share their story. I think hospitality is also moving towards another person. So if you do like to bake or cook or any of those things that you move towards another person and you share that gift with them. I’m even thinking about this again in the new neighborhood, thinking I have not met the various neighbors.

I have new neighbors. Even if I’m in the same neighborhood. I’m actually we’re in the same neighborhood, but we have new neighbors. Okay, how am I going? And extending welcome to them, even as I’ve been the one who’s moved in, I’m trying to think of other examples. I think a lot of it comes through in our curiosity about other people. I think a lot of it can come through in conversation, so you don’t even have to have a physical object. I think the other way. Another way it comes through is by noticing. Let’s say you just were paying attention to somebody and you heard that they enjoyed, you know, dark chocolate of some kind. And the next day you show up with some dark chocolate on their desk, and, you know, you don’t. We don’t think about that as hospitality or are welcome, but you are making a connection with them that says, I see you and I hear you, and that opens up something in between the two of you.

Yeah. That’s great. Anna Chilvers has a question that seems to follow a little bit on that, and she writes a lot of what you have shared in parentheses. Being aware of others, creating a safe space for people, letting go of the outcome, etc. sounds very much like love in action. Would you see any difference between love and hospitality, or is hospitality just one clear and defined way that we demonstrate love?

yeah, I think yes, yes, I would say you are right on the other thing that we haven’t touched on is that, that the movement of hospitality is towards both friend and foreigner, towards those who are familiar and those who are strangers. And the act of justice and the work of moving towards and providing healing in those spaces as well. So it is absolutely love embodied. it can also be justice embodied. And so it is a it is a movement. However, we are called to towards the other person, for the sake of them so that they might have this space, for connection with God, connection with others, and for healing and hope.

Yeah. So Greg Jennings poses an ecclesial question. He writes, we are about to set apart a team of deacons focused just on welcome and hospitality. If you were to plan a church tomorrow, what would you hope and pray this team would become, do and offer in a community?

Oh, that’s a great question. So deacons Move out there. Like literally their role is moving out to serve the other to those who are either homebound, to those who cannot show up, to those who are sick. They are the caretakers. They extend that very practical and tangible need. So I would say that practical need, but also training and understanding of listening, of responding, of caring. the other thing, and I don’t know if this is within your deacon ministry, but I think somebody in the church would do this if I was planting a church. Tomorrow is we have greeters, but we don’t have I don’t even know the term good buyers. We don’t have people that say goodbye at the door. I know in my tradition, for a while, the pastors would walk down the aisle and shake hands at the end. But often it was a good sermon. Good to see you. You know, it wasn’t a thanks, but I wondered. I wondered about people in the church being those who also offer a thank you. And we hope to see you next time. And how that might be an extension of hospitality as well that continues and maybe lingers with them so that they know they’re welcome back.

Oh that’s great. We have a question from an anonymous attendee who asks any advice on practicing hospitality for introverts.

It’s a great question. I know, because right. Hospitality, it’s all about extroverts. It’s have as many people as possible. Yeah, yeah. It comes easier. Let’s have a party and let’s host. I think for introverts, it doesn’t have to be the world that you’re hospitable to. You can just be hospitable to those around you, those that God is calling you to. And my I think my challenge would be and my encouragement is be open to who God might be calling you to. and I would say too, if you need to put boundaries on your time, do that. put boundaries on your time? because I know it does stretch introverts quite a bit. And the other thing I would say is, is be restored as much as possible. Like when you withdraw and you receive, so be restored in the ways that you need to be restored. So do what you need to do. But I would say like allow God to kind of nudge you out and notice your boundaries, you know, honor those. And at the same time, I would say make sure that your boundaries aren’t about like withdrawing, but it’s about, you know, really, God, this is the boundary you want me to set. but I think boundaries are probably more at play with introverts than they are with extroverts, though extroverts need them for sure.

Absolutely.

I hope that’s helpful.

Tara Paul asked if a 12 year old wanted to host their own birthday party. I guess this is, hypothetically speaking. what practices would you encourage them to do to mirror the Lord of hosts. I’m just curious how you would simplify the message of how Jesus is Lord of hosts, and how we can apply the same gift to practicing hospitality as well.

That is so sweet. I love that. And first of all, I’d say keep it simple. Keep whatever the things, you know, just keep it simple. And hospitality. A lot of it is, is preparation, whether you’re moving out towards the other or whether you’re receiving people. I would say preparation of just saying, hey, who is coming? What do you think they would enjoy? and actually imagine who might be coming. Imagine what they would enjoy. Imagine what you want to give to them. Imagine. Just play, you know, and imagine that. And that might not be what they want, but you’re imagining and you’re thinking of them. And then offer these, think about these simple things. And, I think that the stories of scripture, are really. Are, you know, with the 12 year old right there, you know, they’ll hear the story of Scripture and they’ll connect it maybe four years later, maybe, you know, like, but you’re just doing these little, these, I guess, foundational type things for them. but I would also say, hey, what is Jesus given you that he wants you to give to others? Like, maybe it’s this place, this home or whatever it is. Maybe you have the gift of, creating little name cards, or you’re a very fun person and God has given you the gift of games and things like that. So I’d say, what has God given you and then what can you give to others as you see fit? Yeah.

So question from Melody Dubois, who asked in our organization, which is SIL global, we have recently been having conversations about, quote, linguistic Stick hospitality, making space for each other in their own culture and linguistic identity. This can take many forms. Learning how to say their names, learning a worship or other song in their language, etc.. I’m curious if you’ve encountered or thought of other types or spaces for hospitality.

Linguistic hospitality. The first thing I think of is anytime you’re talking to somebody in another language, there’s always more time needed. There’s always more time. You have to slow down and listen. There’s a lot more mental energy that’s needed because you’re listening another language. You’re you’re your mind is working a little bit more. my husband, his work is down in South America, so we’ve gone down there often and receiving their hospitality, receiving the ways that they worship and opening ourselves up to that. I think even in this, this age of AI like I’m thinking about. We have these simultaneous translations, but they still don’t. First of all, get it right. And then the tone and then the nuance and all of those things. I and the, the main thing I’m thinking is it just takes longer. and again, the US culture, we’re such an economy of like time and efficiency and productivity. It really pushes against that. so yes, I have been in other contexts. And again, the slowing down, I think that just generally is a really good practice, for, for understanding one another.

Yeah. You know, speaking of time, one thing that we didn’t really get to talk about, but was sort of, raised by one of the questions with the good buyers, you talk in your book about how important it is to end well, in terms of the practice of hospitality. And since we’re down to our last seven minutes or so, I wanted to ask you a little bit about why is the ending so important and what it what does it mean to extend hospitality? at the conclusion of a, whether it’s a visit or a relationship, or even a person’s life? What does that mean? And why is it so vital?

Yeah. Thanks for that question. That is something I also discovered as I explored hospitality. And, I remember reading in the book The Power of Moments, by the Heath. I think they’re brothers. I believe she’s talking about how one of the main moments we remember in our lives are the ends. So at the end of a, the last words you had with the loved one before they passed away or before, your kid goes off to college or these last words, if you’re, you know, spouse is being deployed. So these last moments. They somehow, I don’t know the psychology of it. I don’t know the neurobiology of it, but they they stay with us. And I was talking with a friend who I talk about a lot in the book, and they’re Australian. They have a coffee shop here and they talk about Closing the loop, and they talk about how valuable it is for each for them to have a coffee shop. They walk the coffee out to them. The person who ordered it, they say goodbye and they call it Closing the Loop. And we had a great discussion about how closing well, how ending well makes you feel like you want to come back again because it leaves that connecting piece there. The other thing about closings is sometimes we don’t get them. Sometimes we don’t have them. And that is really, really hard. and the moments that we can have them, especially if it’s in a difficult relationship or something that’s fractured. If you can have those good closings. They allow for the possibility of new beginnings, and they really offer this death and resurrection picture of Jesus, of this closing, this ending. But when done well and intentionally, it allows for new beginnings. So closings actually make way, for, for beginnings. And so that was a discovery that was fun to discover. And then the more I thought and talked and explored, I was like, oh, this is true, this is true.

Yeah. That’s beautiful. We’re going to give you the last word as we close out. Laura, the last word is yours.

Thank you. I’m going to read a little from the book. We live in a world filled with fear and uncertainty. We’re places of home are hard to find. We get lost in stories told from a distance. And believe the filtered social media images. We suffer the consequences of others decisions on both personal and global scales, and we withdraw in order to find safety in that which is closest to us. In this type of world, we need places and people of welcome. Friends, may we welcome God and be welcomers of others.

Laura, thanks so much.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you to all of you for joining us. Have a great weekend.